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Calendaur i Veleg

Calendaur i Veleg

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:52 am

Right, this is really what this forum is for:

I'm going to write in Sindarin about Greenwood the Great. It will probably take me months!! But I'm going to do it here, adding to it day by day (or week by week) as I have time, so that others can help me, correct me, explain things to me as I go along.

And when I get stuck, I can put up a shout for help, or ask a stupid question without worrying about the response.
Why Greenwood the Great? Because I think its history has lots of interest, there is plenty of scope for descriptive writing, and most importantly its what the vocabulary we have lends itself to best!!

So here is my first beginning:

Calendaur i Veleg

Ned idhrinn ioer en-giliath, pen Anor egor Ithil, *oler i thoer dynd galadhremmin , i Ivon nauthant ed ind în a thangant mi 'law e-galarad :: I ñelaidh heriasser (?) galo, tobol Ennorath na ylf ar 'olassath dîn.
Ablui aind Morgoth Bauglir udul ed Angband în i agor. Na goth a iaew udunc amarth vinui an Ennorath. I Melain úgaranter(?) gartho i thaen ar 'alarad dennin.
Breged i vuil dobant a i 'orf en ñelaidh nuithannen.


Greenwood the Great

In the ancient Ages of the stars, without Sun or Moon, grew the tall tree-entangled forests, that Yavanna conceived out of her mind and established in the light of the Two Lamps. The trees began vigorously to grow, roofing over the lands of Middle-Earth with their branches and foliage.
After long times The Dark Enemy and Tyrant came out of his Iron Prison which he had made. With enmity and mocking scorn he brought the first doom on Middle-Earth. The Valar were not able to defend the summits and the lamps were felled.
Suddenly the twilight fell and the vigour of the trees was stopped.



Added to 17.1.10 ;
last corrected 29.1.10
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Re: Calendaur i Veleg

PostAuthor: atwe » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:20 am

Hi,

Yavanna is the Quenya form of the Valie's name; IIRC it's Ivanneth in Sindarin.

In Sindarin the adjective usually follows the noun, so I'd restructure the sentence according to that (ned idhrinn... ioer, ... i thoer dynd, galadhremmin ...).

As Yavanna conceived the forests out of her own mind, I think the pronoun în may be more appropriate here (cf. to the King's Letter, assuming that în can be used for both sexes).

Finally, I am not sure about the name *Calenthaur, my feeling is that it would rather be *Calendaur.
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Re: Calendaur i Veleg

PostAuthor: Aran » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:02 pm

Some more things:
o ñgiliath
of the stars

The genitive would be en-giliath.

galasser

The past tense of gala- is attested as aul (PE17:131) .

a tangant

There are several conceptions of mutation after a, I would prefer a thangant.

mi glaw

mi 'law

e-gelair dad

According to PE17:97, en causes nasal mutation to plural nouns. You might also want to use the rare dual which seems appropriate here: *e-galarad.
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Re: Calendaur i Veleg

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:15 pm

I had a feeling that there would be an awful lot of corrections to be made, but that's why it's good to do it this way. I'd rather learn sentence by sentence than write a whole page and go into a terminal depression when it's taken apart!

Many thanks indeed! I will edit it, and make some notes for myself.
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Re: Calendaur i Veleg

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:48 pm

Please, what do I do with aul in this context, I can't work it out from Thorsten's course, which doesn't mention gala / aul beyond saying that we don't know much about it.
Should it be auler?
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Re: Calendaur i Veleg

PostAuthor: Aran » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:15 pm

Chapter 9.2.1 in Thorstens course deals with this kind of past tense. Gala- beongs to the same group as the verbs in 17.2.3, it loses its ending and forms the past tense just like an i-verb. However, the medial -g- vanishes by lenition which makes it look irregular. The 3rd pl. form would be *oler or *óler.
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Re: Calendaur i Veleg

PostAuthor: Eryniel » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:19 pm

Suilad,

I am wondering why you translate the name rather than use the name that Tolkien gave it which is "Eryn Galen".

Garo hîdh
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Re: Calendaur i Veleg [Yavanna]

PostAuthor: findegil » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:10 pm

Hara máriesse Párendili!

Ivanneth is the Sindarin name of the month Yavannie ("Fructidor", roughly corresponding to our September). Yavanna seems to be called Ivon in Sindarin (isolated from Ivonwin, 'maidens of Yavanna', PM-e, p. 404). In Noldorin her name was Ivann (Etymologies s.v. YAB-).

Suilad milui
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Re: Calendaur i Veleg

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:31 pm

Eryniel,

a good question, and one which has made me stop and think it out. Now, I don't think this is a cop out (though you might disagree with me!), but if I use this title, I can then introduce the other names as they appear in the history of the forest. As you will gather, I'm starting before there is anyone to name any of the woods - which were really all one wood - at the very beginning.

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Re: Calendaur i Veleg

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:33 pm

Aiya, Findegil,

many thanks, I'll make that alteration.
I'm horribly busy at the moment, so I'm not getting on as fast as I want to, but it will grow, as time permits.

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