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Párendili • View topic - Trilled 'R's in Sindarin
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Trilled 'R's in Sindarin

Trilled 'R's in Sindarin

PostAuthor: Parthgilien74 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:12 am

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Tengwa_ore.gif
Ore
Tengwa_ore.gif (242 Bytes) Viewed 11674 times
Tengwa_romen.gif
Romen
Tengwa_romen.gif (254 Bytes) Viewed 11674 times
I Aear cân ven na mar.
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Re: Trilled 'R's in Sindarin

PostAuthor: atwe » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:48 am

May I ask where this assumption comes from? LotR Appendix E explicitly states that R is trilled in all positions in both Quenya and Sindarin. Moreover the mode of Beleriand uses rómen for R in all positions, óre is used for N.
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Re: Trilled 'R's in Sindarin

PostAuthor: Aran » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:51 pm

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Re: Trilled 'R's in Sindarin

PostAuthor: Lúthien » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:28 pm

I moved this topic here since it seems more appropriate in this section :)

I really want to reply to this but I have been crazily busy ... this R is really interesting, and I have a lot to ask.
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Re: Trilled 'R's in Sindarin

PostAuthor: Huanarmo » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:35 am

This explains a lot, thank you. Having two Rs to work with sometimes gives one choice too many.

I know this is the Sindarin section, but there's a related question I have about using rómen and óre in tengwar writing, in this case concerning Quenya. If you can help, I'd be grateful, because I'm unsure now about having used rómen rather than óre in the last letter of calmallar in the script on our home page.

At the time of writing I actually went and read up Appendix E of LOTR, and took encouragement from Professor Tolkien's advice, which is precisely as Atwe mentions in the earlier post: "R represents a trilled r in all positions".

I've now listened back to a recording of Professor Tolkien reading the Namárië poem, and there's no doubt he is trilling the Rs throughout. However, looking at his own tengwar version of the lament, final Rs are invariably written using óre (for example, in lantar, rámar, yuldar and avánier - and that's just from the first three lines).

I really would appreciate your guidance on this. If a fresh version is needed for our home page, I will prepare it and ask our friend Lúthien to set it in place. As you can tell, we took inspiration from the inscription on the Moria Gate, with one drawing the signs and the other making them appear on the forum site.

It would be disappointing if a prospective member were dissuaded from registering because of a slip-up on the home page. Someone with that degree of knowledge is just the person we want to attract.

With thanks in advance
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Re: Trilled 'R's in Sindarin

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:17 am

Huanarmo,

I made just that mistake myself when starting to write in Tengwar. Romen is always used at the beginning and also in the middle of words [i]if it is followed by a vowel[/i]; ore is used if a consonant follows, and when it is the last letter.

It's a matter of aesthetics, there's no difference in the sounds they represent, it's how the word looks.

And, there you go, I should have spotted your romens on the Opening Page!! You should have an ore in nartha and narta because the r is followed by a consonant.
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Re: Trilled 'R's in Sindarin

PostAuthor: Huanarmo » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:22 am

Thanks, Tuilinde, that's a good clear outline of how to use the two Rs. I shall get the pen out.
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About the alveolar r

PostAuthor: Lúthien » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:15 am

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Re: About the alveolar r

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:44 am

Thank you very much for this, Luthien, it will be most helpful, especially when I'm preparing for a poetry reading for 2012 RotR!
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Re: About the alveolar r

PostAuthor: Huanarmo » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:08 am

Gen suilon, Lúthien.

Thanks, this is really helpful.

An Australian accent is no help in trying to get the rolled r right (though my brother can do it effortlessly). I will keep practising!

Savo 'lass,
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