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Párendili • View topic - Questions About the Exercises
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Questions About the Exercises

Re: EXERCISE 4: SOFT MUTATION (LENITION) - (§3.2)

PostAuthor: findegil » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:06 pm

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Re: Questions About the Exercises

PostAuthor: Huanarmo » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:08 am

Thanks, Findegil.

I had not intended to stray into the territory of special mutations such as nasalized stops. In fact I know of that form only from a helpful extra table that Lúthien and Eryniel shared with me: 'Nazalized stops by archaic consonant groups'. Sure enough, it shows mb- words leniting to 'm…', not 'v…'.

For the purpose of this introductory exercise I will amend that example to a more straightforward 'b' word that lenites to 'v…'.

Meneg hennaid,
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Re: EXERCISE 4: SOFT MUTATION (LENITION) - (§3.2)

PostAuthor: findegil » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:20 pm

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Re: Questions About the Exercises

PostAuthor: Huanarmo » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:10 am

Oops, thanks again, Findegil.

The third time pays for all, as the saying goes. Barad it is!

I really must familiarise myself more with the Etymologies. :yes:

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Re: Questions About the Exercises

PostAuthor: Eryniel » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:14 pm

You weren't the only one who read over the special cases, Huanarmo... :blush2:
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Re: Questions About the Exercises

PostAuthor: Huanarmo » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:55 am

Never mind, it is all worth another linnod:

I ben vaen nartha galad; boe ú-vaecheneb vellyn dîn!

~ 'The clever one spreads light; the dull-witted needs his friends!'

Aur vae,
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Exercise 5: A-Verbs - (§2)

PostAuthor: findegil » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:39 pm

Last edited by findegil on Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Questions About the Exercises

PostAuthor: Eryniel » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:36 am

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Re: Questions About the Exercises

PostAuthor: findegil » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:47 pm

Many thanks, Eryniel, for providing this clarification. It thoroughly answers my question about the reconstructed l-forms and also explains another puzzling thing in Pedin Edhellen: the use of le as a plural pronoun.

However, I am generally reluctant to accept a solution that disregards fully compatible data. If Tolkien really ever thought that -l- should be the general marker for all the courteous 2nd person forms in Sindarin, it has left remarkably few traces in the sources. On the contrary, he consistently defined the Sindarin le as a singular pronoun only*. Pure Sindarin had de, dhe as the courteous pronoun with the same form for singular and plural. But in Quenya singular and plural differed, and as the Noldor wanted to introduce this distinction in Sindarin too, they borrowed le from Quenya to serve as the courteous singular. No change was made to the plural; it continued to be d(h)e in Quenya-influenced Sindarin as well as in pure Sindarin.Thus the connexion of -d(h)- with the 2nd person was retained, and consequently I can't see any logical need to exchange the attested -dh- for a hypothetical -l-.
So: "Kann man schon machen wenn man will" -- ich wage froh den kühnen Lauf :-) .

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Re: Questions About the Exercises

PostAuthor: Eryniel » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:57 am

As stated before I do not feel qualified to judge how to proceed here. Maybe we should just vote on wheather we want to leave Pedin Edhellen or follow it?
I just do not know.... :o
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