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I Mardocundossë Valaron

I Mardocundossë Valaron

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:37 pm

Under the theme of Stewardship here is the first stanza of a poem on the Stewardship of the Valar.

Needless to say, this is the first draft, and continual alterations are to be expected!! The English is not a precise word-for-word translation. If anyone wants it, let me know, and I will put that up as well.
This poem is (hopefully) going to be a Sestina, the form of which is explained below.

I Mardocundossë Valaron

Eru, Ilúvatar antanë men anna ~
*Mermerya oiavë ortirë ar varya ::
Ve andanéya lirnemmë epë Eru
Silumë ar tennoio ricuvammë ontien,
Ardasse manyuvammë ilyar márë nár
Pan haryammë poldorë cantë nor Ardo.

Melimmë vanessë virya norion Ardo
Sámallo Ilúvataro alcarinqu' annar
Cuilë, ëalar, fëar ar ilyar márë nar
Sinomë, Aman, melamaremma varya
Endoressë omótiemmë tás ontien
Camta melamar ar turmen Hínin Eruo.

Apáriemm' istya lindalenen Eruo
Istya encë men satë *cariessë Ardo.
Onnar, olvaryë mannë rincemmë ontien;
Aldar ornë, lossi ar aiwi menyë annar.
Ilyar sinë Melkorello mernemmë varya
Istimë hanya i márië ar ulco nár.

Ananta, carnemmë olya i lá márë nér,
Milyala ar sacala i Hini Eruo.
Ír' Eldar cuivaner - yessëa lië varya
Tultanemmeltë et allómëa Entarda.
Me quernë immë Amanna, camneltë annar,
Melkor hlussanë hurur, tévië ontien.



The Stewardship Of The Valar


Eru, great All-Father, gave to us a gift ~
His desire ever to care and protect.
As once long ago we sang before Eru,
Now and forever we will strive to create,
In Arda will we bless everything that is good
For we have the strength to shape the lands of Earth.

We love the fair beauty of the lands of Earth;
From Iluvatar's mind such glorious gifts -
Our life, beings, spirits and all that is good,
This place, Aman, our home to care and protect.
In Middle-earth we have toiled there to create
A home and realm for the Children of Eru.

We learned knowledge from the Music of Eru.
Knowledge we used in the making of this Earth.
Creatures and plants free from evil we created,
Tall trees, fair blossoms, and singing birds, our gifts.
All these from Melkor we desired to protect
Having wisdom to understand evil and good.

And yet we did much that was not indeed good,
Longing, searching for the Children of Eru.
When Elves awoke - the first people to protect,
We summoned them out of darkest Middle-Earth,
We turned towards Aman; they received our gifts;
Melkor whispered his lies - hatred to create.




Notes

*Mermerya : a *noun *mermë formed from the verb mer - to desire; with a possessive ending -rya - his.
*Cariessë : a *gerund *carië formed from the verb car - to make - the making; with an allative ending -sse - in. Hopefully giving us in the making.


A Sestina is a non-rhyming form with six sixains and an envoi. The metre and line length are not prescribed, (which makes it easier for Quenya!) but there is a complex pattern created with the final word of each line. If you number the first stanza 1,2,3,4,5,6; then in the following stanza you must use those end words in the order 6,1,5,2,4,3; the third stanza takes them as used in the second, and repeats them again 6,1,5,2,4,3.and so on. Thus the end words are continually re-used in an everchanging pattern until you have written six stanzas. (After that you would come back to the first pattern).
A three line envoi closes the poem, using two end words in each line, as follows: 2,5; 4,3; 6,1.
Thanks to Stephen Fry's book "The Ode Less Travelled"


Edited 31.5.10
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Re: I Cardar Valaron

PostAuthor: órerámar » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:48 pm

Good luck with your Sestina - you have not chosen the easiest form. By the way, my English one is finally finished.

Ardaro

Ardo

ortirë varyayë


I suppose the -ye is meant to be the "and" added to the second of a pair. I doubt that one can use this for verbs, for verbal nouns maybe, like "ortirie varyaleye" or something like that.

*venë : from a noun venie listed by Helge as shape, cut; a possible verb *ven - to shape. (The *verb was on a previous list, but he has deleted it!)


In the Etymologies, we have under the stem KAT- the verb kanta- to shape and well attested in Ambarkanta, lassekanta.
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Re: I Cardar Valaron

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:08 am

many thanks!

The Ardaro was just a silly slip up, and got past me when I was fiddling with colours, italics etc. By the way, you can put accents and so on into a message if you use the Character Map. It's a bit fiddly and slow - I only use it for the odd one or two, other wise I type it out in a file and then copy and paste it onto the forum.

I have changed the other lines as you suggested.

Yes, it is a difficult form, and it is quite possible that it may not work, but there is a perverse pleasure in trying it. As I once said to the other Parendili "I don't do easy - easy is boring!"
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Re: I Cardar Valaron

PostAuthor: Huanarmo » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:18 pm

Well, Tuilinde, you have made a fine start. You do set the bar high.

I particularly like the line that reads:

Silumë ar tennoi' onta ricuvammë,


That's such beautiful language, it just ripples off the tongue like water on stones in a brook.

It makes me think of Professor Tolkien's own reading of Namárië; it has the quality of strong inner meaning, the lovely flow, the effortless rhythm, and what I can only describe as the quintessential 'feel' of Quenya. I'd be really proud to write a line like that.

I look forward to more stanzas, and to seeing how the sestina form develops. The envoi at the finish will be something amazing, I've no doubt.

I wish you well with it, and may the stars shine on your work.
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Re: I Cardar Valaron

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:37 pm

Please take note - two more stanzas have been added to the Sestina. I'm half way through!!
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Re: I Mardocundossë Valaron

PostAuthor: órerámar » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:03 pm

Melemmë vanessë virya norion Ardo

I think it should be "melimme" aorist, otherwise present would be "mélamme"

Apáriemmë istya lindalë Eruo

This looks somehow incomplete to me. We learn knowledge from the Music lacks either an ablative or an instrumental. Since the attested example is: Paranyë (apárien) parmanen, I would have used an instrumental: by the Music.

Istya encë men satë *cariessë Ardo.

Could you please explain "ence", I do not understand it here.

Onta onnar, olvaryë aman ricuvammë;

aman would normally require a plural, but does it have one? In one source, it is described as a word adopted from Valarin. In PE17:162, it is derived from the stem MAN- "good" : Q Aman (aman-). Does the word in brackets mean that an adjective adds some kind of ending like "amanya"?

Aldar, lossi ar aiwi emmellon annar.

emme is emphatic pronoun "we, us", would it not rather be "menya, pl. menye" for "our gifts" ?

Ilyar sinë Melkoren mernemmë varya

I read: All these for Melkor we wish to protect. Should it not be "from Melkor" = Melkorello?

Istimë hanya i márië ar ulco nár.

istime is adjective, I feel it is not quite clear to what it is connected. Obviously from the context I understand that it means "we having wisdom", but grammatically, me seems something is missing.

Sorry, I may be nit-picking and feedback from others would be useful.
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Re: I Mardocundossë Valaron

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:27 am

OK, I've been very busy this week, but now I have a little time to deal with your points, which are not nitpicking - we all learn from asking questions, spotting errors and correcting them, or having to explain our peculiar and sometimes idiosyncratic thought processes!

Melemmë vanessë virya norion Ardo

I think it should be "melimme" aorist, otherwise present would be "mélamme"


You are quite right, it should be "melimme",

Apáriemmë istya lindalë Eruo

This looks somehow incomplete to me. We learn knowledge from the Music lacks either an ablative or an instrumental. Since the attested example is: Paranyë (apárien) parmanen, I would have used an instrumental: by the Music.


And again, that is good, I'll put the instrumental in, though that spoils the syllable count - I'll work on that.

Istya encë men satë *cariessë Ardo.

Could you please explain "ence", I do not understand it here.


I was trying for the past tense of ec as in ece nin care. "It is possible for me to do it." So it is literally Wisdom (it) was possible for us (dat) to appropriate. Or Wisdom we had the opportunity to appropriate in the making...

Onta onnar, olvaryë aman ricuvammë;

aman would normally require a plural, but does it have one? In one source, it is described as a word adopted from Valarin. In PE17:162, it is derived from the stem MAN- "good" : Q Aman (aman-). Does the word in brackets mean that an adjective adds some kind of ending like "amanya"?


The problem here is that Amanya means of Aman, while amanya means blessed. so that is why I put it in unchanged. Should it be *amanea / pl. amanie? Perhaps Aran, Atwe or Findegil might have a suggestion.

Aldar, lossi ar aiwi emmellon annar.

emme is emphatic pronoun "we, us", would it not rather be "menya, pl. menye" for "our gifts" ?


So, would that make it "menyellon"? I don't think that will work. I don't think there's a problem with it being emphatic - Eru didn't make the trees etc - the Ainur did.
I know I've made difficulties for myself by trying to write a Sestina, 'cos it means that annar must be at the end of the line, and cannot take a suffix! So it has to say Trees, flowers, birds, from us, gifts.

Ilyar sinë Melkoren mernemmë varya

I read: All these for Melkor we wish to protect. Should it not be "from Melkor" = Melkorello?


As I understood it, the Dative can be used to express "against" as well as "for". Thorsten says it can be used to say "I fight against Orcs." Of course that means the context must make that clear, and it seems I haven't managed that. I will give it some more thought.

Istimë hanya i márië ar ulco nár.

istime is adjective, I feel it is not quite clear to what it is connected. Obviously from the context I understand that it means "we having wisdom", but grammatically, me seems something is missing.


In the lists istima is defined as having wisdom. I was using it to refer back to the we in the previous line.
WE desired to protect, HAVING WISDOM . .. The wisdom we have makes us able to protect. I deliberately put no punctuation after varya hoping that people would read straight on.

Perhaps others would let me know if this is too confusing, in which case I will try to find an alternative. For your information I'm trying to keep as close to a syllable count of 13 as possible in the Quenya, and 11 in the English.
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Re: I Mardocundossë Valaron

PostAuthor: órerámar » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:41 am

Tuilinde wrote:Oh dear, I seem to have made a poor job of these stanzas.


Absolutely not agreeing with you, you have chosen a very difficult form. Having to concentrate on some specific features of a form makes us sometimes not see the obvious.
Courage ! In addition, some of my remarks may be seen differently by others.
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Re: I Mardocundossë Valaron

PostAuthor: findegil » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:35 pm

Tuilinde wrote:
Onta onnar, olvaryë aman ricuvammë;

aman would normally require a plural, but does it have one? In one source, it is described as a word adopted from Valarin. In PE17:162, it is derived from the stem MAN- "good" : Q Aman (aman-). Does the word in brackets mean that an adjective adds some kind of ending like "amanya"?


The problem here is that Amanya means of Aman, while amanya means blessed. so that is why I put it in unchanged. Should it be *amanea / pl. amanie? Perhaps Aran, Atwe or Findegil might have a suggestion.


I think it is generally assumed that adjectives ending in a consonant take the plural inflexion -i, though no such form seems to be on record. So if aman can really be used as an adjective, the plural ought to be *amani. But it would still mean the same thing as amanya (pl. amanye): 'blessed, free from evil' according to the gloss in "Quendi and Eldar". So why not rather use amanya or one of its synonyms, e.g. manna from "Aia María I-II"?
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Re: I Mardocundossë Valaron

PostAuthor: órerámar » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:17 pm

Apáriemmë istya lindalë Eruo

This looks somehow incomplete to me. We learn knowledge from the Music lacks either an ablative or an instrumental. Since the attested example is: Paranyë (apárien) parmanen, I would have used an instrumental: by the Music.

And again, that is good, I'll put the instrumental in, though that spoils the syllable count - I'll work on that.

You could probably leave out "istya", for learning through the Music of Eru means obviously acquiring knowledge.

Istya encë men satë *cariessë Ardo.

Could you please explain "ence", I do not understand it here.

I was trying for the past tense of ec as in ece nin care. "It is possible for me to do it." So it is literally Wisdom (it) was possible for us (dat) to appropriate. Or Wisdom we had the opportunity to appropriate in the making...

Thanks, I have not thought of that verb.

Aldar, lossi ar aiwi emmellon annar.

emme is emphatic pronoun "we, us", would it not rather be "menya, pl. menye" for "our gifts" ?

So, would that make it "menyellon"? I don't think that will work. I don't think there's a problem with it being emphatic - Eru didn't make the trees etc - the Ainur did.
I know I've made difficulties for myself by trying to write a Sestina, 'cos it means that annar must be at the end of the line, and cannot take a suffix! So it has to say Trees, flowers, birds, from us, gifts.

Why do you need an ablative? Trees, flowers, birds - our gifts (menye annar) does in my opinion not say that the gifts are from Eru, but from the ones who speak.
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