Navigator
Search

Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: Lúthien » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:28 pm

I had a look at the other application that this journalist mentioned :

I write Elvish 1.0.1, an app from Sviluppo iPhone Italia


This application is not about elvish languages at all but merely uses characters that are vaguely reminiscent of Tengwar to create the sort of "stylish" images that some people seem to think lends them an aura of having a slightly mysterious, yet refined taste.

I have not downloaded it because it is not free, and I can think of many better uses of 79 cents. But there is no need to, because the website and screen images really say it all. What the application does? There will be a small collection of grotesque images of, say, blue "elves" (looking more like a Gollum from another planet than anything else), dragons, and also (for some dark reason) the neck of a bald gentleman of the burly sort that usually finds employment in a club, where they toss people out who are not meeting the local standards for hip-ness.
These images can then be overlaid with a number of words that the user can enter. They probably have some multi-page interface for that to make it look more snazzy - although a simple text area would suffice here.
The characters (rendered in a shiny golden tint) are then displayed over the image in a strange character-set that is vaguely reminiscent of the Tengwar. At least, that is what they say. I cannot judge it because I am not familiar with Tengwar. Maybe it is just one image, recycled all the time. Or maybe they took Greek letters, extended the stems a bit and made them slightly curved.

And of course, the finished handicraft can then be exported to Facebook and probably some other "social networks" in order to convey the message "Look how slightly mysterious and superior stylish I am!" to all their friends.

The results of the Dutch Jury: minus 8 points.

Here's some images. But beware, they are not for the faint of heart :zucht:

Image
User avatar
Lúthien
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:10 pm
Gender: Female

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: Tuilinde » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:01 pm

Thanks for those opinions. I'll convey them in a concise form to Caleb.

Elros - I've failed to make any sense of the "tengwar" - it rather looks to me as if they've mixed up different Modes. Any opinion?

I do think if we can pass on a considered opinion of these apps it will help - after all they're what started him off in the first place, and apps are his expertise, as you might say.

I shall keep in touch with him. I was handed this by the TS Committee, and therefore feel it's important to be seen to be helpful, but also he has been appreciative of what I've shared with him.
And most important of all, that is the stated ethos of this Forum, and we should stick to it even in unusual circumstances such as this.
Tuilinde
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:30 pm
Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK
Gender: Female

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: Lúthien » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:14 pm

Maybe it got buried in the iPhone app posts, but I've written a post about the original question of contacting that journalist that I'd like to discuss.
User avatar
Lúthien
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:10 pm
Gender: Female

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: Eryniel » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:16 am

I believe it is a false use of a Tengwar Font the way people with no idea of Tengwar do: They just type the latin letters and think the corresponding Tengwar lies on the same key on the keyboard. Note the Tehta that is not written on top of a Tengwar.
Although when rendering it back to latin letters I come up with something silly like ".m.nF;½ Fx.: zmFuz;mz".

The only Tolkien Modi I know that uses úre and also Tehtar is the Classical Mode and that makes no sense because of the tilde underneath wilya, indicating a double consonant.
User avatar
Eryniel
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:08 pm
Location: Nenhad - Tol Harndor
Gender: Female

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: órerámar » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:11 am

Thank you, Lúthien, for this detailed feedback. I suspected as much and the Swiss vote joins the Dutch jury :)
órerámar
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:51 pm
Gender: Female

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: Elros » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:04 am

Tuilinde wrote:Elros - I've failed to make any sense of the "tengwar" - it rather looks to me as if they've mixed up different Modes. Any opinion?


They are indeed strange. It seems they have simply taken Harri Perälä's font Tengwar Cursive (which before Tengwar Annatar was the font for Ring-inscription style tengwar) and used it to input nonsense. I suppose the text field at the top of each screen is where you write that which you want "translated to Elvish" -- but then most people should get suspicious if "miriam" is translated the same way as the beginning of "per sempre"...
User avatar
Elros
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:54 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Gender: Male

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: Lúthien » Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:30 am

Elros wrote:I suppose the text field at the top of each screen is where you write that which you want "translated to Elvish" -- but then most people should get suspicious if "miriam" is translated the same way as the beginning of "per sempre"...


I asked two friends to look at those Tengwar letters - and this is what they came up with

The thing on the top of the screenshots says "veoldusscephurdl"
At least using Quenya. Sindarin would be something liiiiike "oevlduzekphyurdl" ... which really isn't much better...


what this person wrote reads... 'WL{H}WEVVE GGW KEL{H}R{H}KKL{H}K"


(I suppose they looked at different images of that application)
I have no idea what resources they used though.
But, as mentioned above by Elros, this suggests that the letters aren't even put in an order which is meant to somehow represent the user input, but merely based on the developer's judgement of how their ornamental value would come out best.

I suppose it is a bit like how some people like to use language only looking at its outward shape - as opposed to meaning. Such as those graffiti kids who spray names like "PqwaxxDude" or "TrlQQpzt!". It does not mean anything, but I suppose they assume that the looks say it all. They seem to feel a particular attraction to large unspeakable consonant clusters, leaning heavily on the letters X and Q that traditionally have a bit of a mystery feel to them ("Mr. X, "Q" from Star Trek, etcetera). A bit like nonverbal communication such as grunts and snorts, but expressed in letters.
It's funny that people on the other side of the social spectrum - say, rich old ladies - seem to do something similar when naming their small lap dogs, using lots of Z's ands S's. Maybe this is meant to suggest a long line of noble ancestry because of its vaguely Hungarian appeal (i.e. "Zsazsa").
User avatar
Lúthien
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:10 pm
Gender: Female

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: Lúthien » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:29 am

Eryniel wrote:I believe it is a false use of a Tengwar Font the way people with no idea of Tengwar do: They just type the latin letters and think the corresponding Tengwar lies on the same key on the keyboard. Note the Tehta that is not written on top of a Tengwar.
Although when rendering it back to latin letters I come up with something silly like ".m.nF;½ Fx.: zmFuz;mz".

The only Tolkien Modi I know that uses úre and also Tehtar is the Classical Mode and that makes no sense because of the tilde underneath wilya, indicating a double consonant.


Ha, that is the third confirmation :)
Hannad, meldis vell!

Maybe we should contact the developer suggesting that they'd better change the name of this app to "I write Vaguely Elvish-looking Random Jibberish, projected on either a Alien Blue Gollem or a Bouncers' Neck". They will probably reject it though, on account of it not being a very marketable title. Tsk.

PS it's funny but your post seems to have been antedated by the board software to sit between posts that were made earlier. I wonder - does your time zone show up correctly?
User avatar
Lúthien
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:10 pm
Gender: Female

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: Eryniel » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:53 pm

Hannad, meldis vell!

Glass nîn, gwathel ammell.

PS it's funny but your post seems to have been antedated by the board software to sit between posts that were made earlier. I wonder - does your time zone show up correctly?

Not sure how to verify this. I am posting this at 12.22 am local time. at the bottom the board tells me: All times are UTC+1. Maybe that has something to do with it? I let you puzzle it out ;-)
User avatar
Eryniel
 
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:08 pm
Location: Nenhad - Tol Harndor
Gender: Female

Re: Questions via the Tolkien Society Committee

PostAuthor: Lúthien » Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:05 pm

Eryniel wrote:Not sure how to verify this. I am posting this at 12.22 am local time. at the bottom the board tells me: All times are UTC+1. Maybe that has something to do with it? I let you puzzle it out ;-)

it's in your profile settings. It was indeed set at UTC+1, and I changed it to <australian accent>Central Standard Time</australian accent>.
User avatar
Lúthien
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:10 pm
Gender: Female

PreviousNext

Return to General discussion

Who is online

Registered users: No registered users

cron