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New Sindarin Dictionary application

Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: órerámar » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:23 am

"Lúthien"

But seriously - I think you are definitely right. But I am also very serious in that I do not want to tread in the Dagorlad of the Elfing vs. Elfling-D wars. Maybe some people are immune for what goes on there, but I sure am not. I'd rather cherish the joy that I find in the elvish languages.



I feel like you. Instead of giving fuel to the copyright debat, I am convinced that a personal contact via e-mail is better. The e-mail addresses of both Hostetter and Gilson can be found on the last pages of every VT.
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Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: Lúthien » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:27 am

ok, but I maintain that *I* do not want to be the one to write those letters. I have grave doubts whether my approach and wording of the matter towards them would be productive - and apart from that - I really cannot put it any better than this: I don't want to. It's like when I tried to take our dog out for a walk when they were lighting firecrackers outside on New Year's eve. He splayed all his legs in order to not having to get out. It feels something like that.

Luckily, I've been offered some help.
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Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: órerámar » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:30 am

Lúthien wrote:ok, but I maintain that *I* do not want to be the one to write those letters. I have grave doubts whether my approach and wording of the matter towards them would be productive - and apart from that - I really cannot put it any better than this: I don't want to. It's like when I tried to take our dog out for a walk when they were lighting firecrackers outside on New Year's eve. He splayed all his legs in order to not having to get out. It feels something like that.

Luckily, I've been offered some help.


I am prepared to help as well. So whoever is writing, if help is wanted to set up the text, just get in touch with me.
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Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: Lúthien » Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:07 am

Back to business ..

I've been working on the editor, and here's a very preliminary preview of what I have in mind.
I had the idea of maintaining the basic TEI structure all throughout the application because it is devised by people who know more about linguistic nitty-gritty than I do and probably a proven concept. Thus, the editor should follow that format as well.

The idea is to build up an editor screen from all elements that an entry is made of (Entry - Topform - Form - GramGroup - etc.) and per field decide to either allow for a free text field, a combo-box which allows only for a few choices and some immutable (display-only) fields. Maybe some other sorts will come along.

Here's a screen cast of an editor window that has only the Entry, Topform and Form elements done as yet; but it illustrates the idea.

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Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: Eryniel » Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:56 pm

I have one question about the application: For a lot of tense changes the stem of verbs is used. Do you all think it would be good to have an entry for the stem, for the verbs at least?

And I also want to add a compliment: Im using the application now on a continual basis and I just LOVE the search function that allows you to search any part of the word. That much be the single most useful toy for someone like me :)

Plus a little status report on the copyright front: Thanks to órerámar for her input. A letter to Mr. Gilson is on its way. Lets hope for a favourable answer...
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Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: Eryniel » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:52 pm

Lúthien vell,
the dictionary application is really working wonderfully for me. Hannad an *eith gîn :)

A little update from the legal front too. Unfortunately I have not heard from Mr. Gilson at all, so I will rephrase the letter a bit and send it to the Tolkien Estate instead, never fear...

Gen suilon meldis.
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Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: findegil » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:48 am

findegil wrote:
órerámar wrote:"nonwa "computer" (lit. "implement for reckoning"); derived from the stem NOT = count, by adding ending -ma = thing ; CE *notmâ becomes nonwa in Q"

Aha … I suppose it referred to some sort of abacus or slide-rule in the days of Common Eldarin :)


Interestingly, PE 19 has a noun nonwe < notmē 'calculation, a sum' (p.86, note 79). This form was deleted, however, as Tolkien changed his mind about the development of CE -tm-: in Quenya it should result in -tw-, not -nw-. A CE *not-mā 'counting-tool' would then presumably have yielded Q *notwa.
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Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: órerámar » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:59 am

findegil wrote:
findegil wrote:
órerámar wrote:"nonwa "computer" (lit. "implement for reckoning"); derived from the stem NOT = count, by adding ending -ma = thing ; CE *notmâ becomes nonwa in Q"

Aha … I suppose it referred to some sort of abacus or slide-rule in the days of Common Eldarin :)


Interestingly, PE 19 has a noun nonwe < notmē 'calculation, a sum' (p.86, note 79). This form was deleted, however, as Tolkien changed his mind about the development of CE -tm-: in Quenya it should result in -tw-, not -nw-. A CE *not-mā 'counting-tool' would then presumably have yielded Q *notwa.


Thanks Findegil for this. This is most interesting indeed. The "nonwa" conclusion is obviously based on examples like YAT- > yanwe and MBARAT- > maranwe in the Etym. This has drawn my attention to VT49:45 where it seems that Tolkien changed the stem YAT- to YAN- because of dissatisfaction with tm >nw concluding with a "what a muddle" (VT49:54).

So apparently, Lúthien has now become a notwa-maitar :)
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Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: findegil » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:01 am

órerámar wrote: This has drawn my attention to VT49:45 where it seems that Tolkien changed the stem YAT- to YAN- because of dissatisfaction with tm >nw concluding with a "what a muddle" (VT49:54).


Thanks a lot for reminding me of this reference. I had "what a muddle" in vivid memory but couldn't recall where I had seen it. :)
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Re: New Sindarin Dictionary application

PostAuthor: Aran » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:07 pm

Soo... What's the current status of the project?
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